Stephen Hopper
Habibs Lawyer
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
INSIDERS
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2005/s1306673.htm
Broadcast: 05/12/2004
Business deal took Habib overseas, lawyer says
Stephen Hopper, the lawyer for former Guantanamo Bay detainee Mamdouh Habib, says his client left Australia to meet a contact about a cleaning business in Pakistan and another country. Mr Hopper says his client did not spend any time in a terrorist camp. He says Mr Habib never knowingly travelled with any member of any terrorist organisation.

BARRIE CASSIDY: I think we'll go straight to his lawyer Stephen Hopper, who’s standing by in Sydney. Good morning Stephen.
STEPHEN HOPPER: Good morning, how are you?
BARRIE CASSIDY: Really well. The Senate committee has invited your client to respond in writing to the allegations that were made against him this week by the Australian authorities. Will he avail himself of that opportunity?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Well I'll be having a conference with him today and later on a conference with a senior lawyer. We'll take on board what the Senate said and we'll work out which way we'll respond if any.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And if you do respond then surely this will be the time to give a full account of what he was doing while overseas?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Well not necessarily. A Senate is just a committee, a Senate estimates committee. When Mr Habib earlier this week talked about going before the Senate, he was talking about a full Senate inquiry into the Government's handling of this whole affair, going all the way back to ASIO's first harassment of my client. Now if they're willing to do that, we're willing to go to the Senate and tell all. But if they want to do something thats just on ground favourable to them, I mean theyve got to be kidding. They have got to put everything up and well put everything up.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Stephen Hopper, Virginia Trioli from 774 ABC Melbourne. Do you concede now in the backwash of a rather failed interview, it would seem, on Channel Nine that you've actually - or your client has done himself more harm than good? He has muddied the waters, he seemed incredibly evasive, and the key question, what on earth he was doing in Pakistan and possibly Afghanistan, not being answered, no matter how he protests his innocence has done himself down?
STEPHEN HOPPER: I think what it really shows is its a failure of journalism in this country.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: What, that she didn't ask a tougher question?
STEPHEN HOPPER: What has happened here, there's an exposure of the government not telling the truth about a lot of issues in relation to Mr Habib but what the media have focused on is Mr Habib. Why dont the media have a look at what the government's said and their whole handling of this affair?
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Mr Hopper, this was Habibs moment to actually give his account, thats what we all expected. I don't think its easy in this circumstance to blame it on the media or even the government?
STEPHEN HOPPER: No, no. This might be your expectations and the Australian public's expectations. What Mr Habib said he would do with Sixty Minutes is give an account of what happened to him from his detention. Now if other people want to turn that around and turn that into something else well thats another issue. For Mr Habib he will be giving his full account of his activities before a court. Where we will go and what court we will go to is yet to be decided.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Are you saying that's all Channel Nine asked for, all they wanted was to have a look at what happened in detention, full stop?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Oh no, no, no. Channel Nine wanted to do the whole story but we told them from the beginning that Mr Habib is only going to talk about what happened from his detention onwards.
ANDREW BOLT: Mr Hopper, Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun. Before I get to my question can I just ask you, just in passing, I saw a newspaper reference that you'd been - you're a convert to Islam, is that true?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Oh look people are trying to turn a lot of things around on to me privately. My private life is really no-one's business.
ANDREW BOLT: I ask only because you seem to be, you represent quite a number of Islamist extremists, it seems to me. And it also seems to me that you take, you seem to take their case very personally and make quite wild accusations against the government. I’m just wondering what the personal agenda behind this is, are you a convert to Islam or not?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Look, mind your own business Andrew. That's my answer to you.
ANDREW BOLT: OK. Can I ask you the $64 question then, was your client ever in a camp in Afghanistan or Pakistan that was run by Islamist extremists, whether it was Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Toiba or some other similar group?
STEPHEN HOPPER: He's denied that emphatically. He's been asked that question on Sixty Minutes and he says I'm completely innocent, I've never trained with Al Qaeda or any other group, I've never had any or been a member of any terrorist organisation.
ANDREW BOLT: He's never been in one of those camps?
STEPHEN HOPPER: No.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Has he ever travelled with anybody associated with Al Qaeda?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Well not to his knowledge.
MALCOLM FARR: Malcolm Farr from the Daily Telegraph. What was this man who professes his great love for his family doing leaving them, admittedly for three years that he didn't want to stay away but leaving them behind in Australia and heading out for Pakistan and Afghanistan. Why would a man who is deeply attached to his family, do something like that?
STEPHEN HOPPER: What he was trying to do was chase a business opportunity, it was quite a lucrative business opportunity. There was a contact he was meeting for that and that opportunity would've took him beyond Pakistan and to another country. He had to go and seal that deal and then for the time he would've spent in Pakistan find a suitable college to put the kids in that was of a standard similar to what we have here.
ANDREW BOLT: Mr Hopper if he's going around the world chasing lucrative deals, sealing deals and negotiating, what's he doing on a disability pension?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Well, he was on a disability pension because he had severe depression.
ANDREW BOLT: Not to do depressed to go around sealing international deals?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Well, you know people who have depression try and escape from their situation. It’s a very complex condition.
ANDREW BOLT: Should give the money back dont you think?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Whether this business deal would've worked or whether it was like what it was made out to him, was something we haven't found out.
BARRIE CASSIDY: What was the nature of that business deal, without going into detail?
STEPHEN HOPPER: It involved a cleaning business.
ANDREW BOLT: Cleaning up Afghanistan. Thank God someone's cleaned it up.
MALCOLM FARR: He paid for this trip out of what, the sale of the previous business or saved up his disability pension, how did he pay for this?
STEPHEN HOPPER: I believe there was a small residue left from either selling the house or selling business.
MALCOLM FARR: So he was going to move the whole family at some stage, out of Australia?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Yes he was, well yes. He was looking at doing this for a year or two and then, apparently, if this business was what it was made out to be, he would've set himself up.
ANDREW BOLT: So he's gone to a war zone in Afghanistan to seal a deal to do with cleaning. Do you really think that's remotely credible?
STEPHEN HOPPER: No, no, nice try. We haven't said where Mr Habib was from the time he left Sydney until he was detained. Just because an interviewer makes an assertion of him being in a certain place and he doesn't answer that question. There is actually a number of questions about his locations at various times that he didn't answer but they just played one but because a journalist makes an assertion doesnt mean its true.
ANDREW BOLT: Even if it is northern Pakistan is he really doing a cleaning deal in northern Pakistan, is that what you're asserting?
STEPHEN HOPPER: Oh well, I mean some people say that you masquerade as a journalist.
ANDREW BOLT: I tell you what you're not masquerading very well as a solicitor right now. You haven't got many answers. A cleaning deal in northern Pakistan is that what you're saying?
STEPHEN HOPPER: No it was a deal that was set up to start there and go to another country. Believe it or not, they do have office buildings in Pakistan, they do have office buildings in other countries that need cleaning. Its not that far fetched.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Mr Hopper is it possible in a time soon that we might be hearing from you or from your client that somehow, he's just mistakenly or unknowingly fallen in with people who are going to be found to be associated with terrorist groups. Is that going to be the line perhaps coming from you now or soon?
STEPHEN HOPPER: No I'm not going to disclose anything about what strategies we're going to put down. In due course they'll come out but Im not going to fill in the gaps at this time by saying what its about and how we're going to do it.
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Personally I think he should of stuck to the old stand by of "my dog died and I just wanted to see it had a proper muslim burial" just sounds more believable.